Richard Oliver

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Posts by Richard Oliver

• 
  347

  ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

  exhibit list.

  joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  LoveUniHateExams Please read your own question:

  LoveUniHateExams16 hours ago

  @Richard Oliver - why do JWs shun disassociated people?

  Where in your question did you state that of child abuse victims. I answered your question. So yes Jesus did shun someone who was going to participate in a plot to kill him, but he did choose to shun Judas. Second, JWs believe in the comments to Timothy that All scriptures are inspired by God, so it is not that just because Jesus didn't say something doesn't mean that Christians don't believe it, that is true for most denominations of Christians.

  Also, I know that I will be accused of being callous and un-loving, but those that have gone through a traumatic situation does not get a pass for everything else that they do in their life. Look at how the law views veterans who have post-traumatic stress disorder and then commit a crime, there past does come into play for mitigation of a punishment but doesn't mean that they aren't punished for the things that they do later in life. Would you excuse a person who had sexually abused a child because as a child the perpetrator was abused as a child? No you wouldn't, you may want some mercy to be shown to them and the punishment to be less severe but you would still expect that person to be punished.
• 
  347

  ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

  exhibit list.

  joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  Yes that is my answer. I feel that one who is DA is just as someone who is DF.
• 
  347

  ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

  exhibit list.

  joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local/crime/article39058014.html

  Shows that Elders did view it as a form of child abuse and did answer questions even though the defendant later claimed that it was a matter of clergy-pentinent privilege.
• 
  347

  ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

  exhibit list.

  joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  I agree that they should have articulated the stand of Jehovah's Witnesses better and to be quite honest most anything would have been a better response than what was given. I think that they should have expected that as a question and had prepared it better or put it in their opening statement so that they could have pointed to the statement.
  
• 
  347

  ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

  exhibit list.

  joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  I did choose to answer. You just don't like the answer.
• 
  347

  ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

  exhibit list.

  joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  Sorry. In the case that I was referencing I incorrectly stated it was a civil matter. It was that the defendant tried to have the evidence suppressed because of the communication between the elders and him over the child pornography. The court rejected that appeal.
• 
  347

  ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

  exhibit list.

  joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  Also at least in the US arrest records are public record so following an arrest for possession images of child exploitation, there would be no need ever for elders to look at those images for a congregational investigation. The arrest record by law has to present enough evidence to justify an arrest. So even if the case never goes to trial and no testimony is given, there is evidence of at least two witnesses of the act, one is the images themselves and the second is the officer, deputy or tech that had to view the images to make a sworn arrest record.
• 
  347

  ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

  exhibit list.

  joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  Plus orphan crow by your logic someone else would have to have seen those images to inform the elders unless it was a confession then in that case your whole argument is moot anyways. But in the case that another person did see them, that doesn't mean that they have looked at images of child exploitation.
• 
  347

  ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

  exhibit list.

  joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  And where did I say that the elders had to look at the images of child exploitation for them to make a determination if it is that or not. I never said that, neither did the policy say that. Also it is important to know that even the law makes a distinction between what has to be reported and by who between sexual child abuse of a person known directly to the mandatory reporter and that of images of sexual exploitation.

  Also you don't have to look at this through the hypothetical of orphan crow. There was a case in the US that dealt with this. I will find you the appeals case that gives the material facts of it. If I remember correctly, the man sued the elders for reporting his viewing of images of sexual exploitation. He claimed that the elders were obligated to keep his confession secret. They originally asked him to self report, then because the wife was the one who found the images initially and they were attending marriage counseling, asked her to speak with the marriage counselor so that both the elders and the counselor and the wife could get him to self report. He informed the elders that either he did or the counselor reported it. They found out it was a lie, then reported it themselves. He claimed it was a confidential communication and sued.
• 
  347

  ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

  exhibit list.

  joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  No orphan crow. Even the policy for child abuse based on the August 1 letter does not say that it has to be investigated by the elders before either the legal is contacted for legal advice or for that legal advice to be to report it. The legal advice will be on applicable laws, which in most cases will be defined as a reasonable suspecision of abuse. So again you keep confusing two separate departments with two seperate sets of advice. One is a legal determination of if a matter based on law is required to be reported and second is what internal sanctions one should receive.